New season sponsorship

Randall
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby Randall » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:13 am

bumpuss wrote:I dont think the average cash balance is relevent...

If you have a high cash balance, it just means you are not spending much - this is the case most of the time. The only other time if you have a big cash balance is if from the transfer market (a big positive cash balance).

The amount being spent is always more relevent when judging the strenght of an economy.

How much are we spending on coaches? Player wages? Ground maintenance. Has this increased over time? (it should hopefully). This is the money that is "lost" from the game.
Re: New season sponsorship
Post by Randall » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:49 am


Bumpuss being a high ranked manager and having played the game for many years you are possibly in the luxurious position of having the revenue to hold a high cash balance and have the choice of spending it or not. I don't think it is the case that the folk with a low balance have made the decision to spend it all , they just never had it in the first place! (By the way I am not criticising you playing the game a long time or having reached a high rank. That's what we all aspire to - to enjoy this game for a long time and to be the best and defeat our peers in cups and leagues)

Relevant to your point (but something you could only dig deeper into based on some actual number rather than pontification) is what we could do to give folk with a lot of money the opportunity to use their cash. Suspect like in real life this is ever more elite leagues or cups which give more fame but require greater money to be successful in (in effect a Level 1+) But as i dont have that experience I'd leave that up to be debated by yourself and others in that boat. In the meantime my focus is just on some stats so we can see where we are as a basis for discussion /debate particularly on the Bob Cratchett's of the game instead of the Jacob Marley's!

The amount being spent as you mentioned above will be very low by the bottom 50 - you cannot spend what you have not generated in the first place!. It will be a fraction of the spend of the Top 50 . The 'economy' of Stumped (as in real life) is a very diverse one - multi economies - based around length of membership and league position. I'm not saying that could or should be changed , but if we have a lot of folk with more money than they can spend and others leaving because they dont make progress based on a lack of funds ( I am not saying that myself - it is general conjecture that I have seen and heard on the site for all the time I have played) then it would be useful to see those numbers in black and white as the basis for informed debate - rather than the usual 'gut ' feels we are all necessarily reduced to in the absence of numerical fact.

The points you make at the end are good example of how managers at the beginning of the game 'waste' money and certainly there are many good posts to try and help them avoid overspend in these areas in the early days and suggestions (which run from laissez-faire to nanny state in their approach . Again in that way Stumped mirrors human nature in terms of there are many folk who fall to the lure of easy credit a good life and over spend and end up going bankrupt!

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angeltoast
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby angeltoast » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:26 am

Returning to the original topic of this thread, I was pointing out that, at the lower level of the game, the income from sponsorship is a significant component of cashflow, and it is fixed according to the divisions in which the club sits. At the end of a season, all the wages are assessed, and increased appropriately, but even though the club's fan base improves with performance, the club is unable to attract a matching rise in sponsorship.
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bumpuss
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby bumpuss » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:15 am

I am not a high ranked managed :lol: (even though my ranking is high at the moment).

The managers that started this game in the 1st two seasons definetly should have a higher cash balance. IT was easier back then to move up the division (not many human teams). As time went by, these original teams improved and it is definetly more difficult for a newer team to move up the division. But there is nothing we can do about this, first in best served :lol:

The amount being spent as you mentioned above will be very low by the bottom 50 - you cannot spend what you have not generated in the first place!.


Actually what i meant was, teams in lower divisions should have lower expenses, if not then they are spending too much. So they should be earning more than top division teams in a season. Currently, I think have been making a small loss for the past couple of seasons. Where as I expect new teams and lower ranked teams to be making big profits - in fact this is what they should be aiming for. they have lower skilled players, smaller grounds and a smaller squad.

This sort of game, you need to slowly build up your finances, because you need more fans for increase attendance to games and this will be your main source of income.

@Angeltoast - wages dont necessarily increase every season, it can drop too (if you have older players).If you increase sponsorship..then all the teams will have more money and in the end this makes no difference.

mike778
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby mike778 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:08 pm

angeltoast wrote:Wages all go up at the end of season, but sponsorship doesn't, despite a growing fan base. Can this be rectified?


That isn't how the game works. Sponsorship is purely based on division you play in. Fan base generates money in a different way - via bigger attendances. If you want sponsorship to be adjusted for fan base then either:

a) you want an increase in money in the game generally - that is a separate discussion
b) you want sponsorship to be linked to fan base

So if you aren't asking for extra money in the game but you want sponsorship linked to fanbase then it follows that for teams like yourself to increase sponsorship then new teams with a low fanbase must have reduced sponsorship (as they have lowest fanbase) , this would be a strange request.

Regarding some of the other points

Money Inflation

I think the number of active teams in the game has dropped a bit. The fewer, the active teams, the higher the percentage of them in higher divisions. Therefore the higher the percentage of teams with easier access to income and hence the higher average bank balance. I've said before , I think its good that teams are rewarded for being in the top division but its too easy to get there and the number of league should be halved or even thirded. A lot of the Asian sides (not India) are given a very easy passage compared to new English teams.

Finances for New Teams
I think its fine for top teams to have financial advantages providing there is the opportunity for new teams to break in. Whilst its not easy, I think there are clear routes to the top for new teams and they have their own opportunities - for example they can play youths 3 games a week. I think the biggest mistake a new team can make it to have too many players. I think most of Lizzie's financial issues were self inflicted.

I joined just before the big crash (the early teams will know what that is) so had to restart in Season 10 as my team was wiped. Because of that I was pretty sure what would work for a new team and went with the 14 man squad. I never had any financial issues early on (we never had any real stud youth pulls), my team progressed pretty quickly, we could afford to expand the ground as fans rose and my youth players progressed quickly so we had more money so could go with a slightly bigger and better squad. For me, the route from a new team to a reasonable strong and financial stable divsion 2 side was reasonably straight forward.

So for me the finances are OK as long as newbies are reigned in early on. With the one change I would want to make being to merge some of the smaller leagues to make some of their players have to work a bit harder for their riches. Actually, if it was down to me, I would make the whole game one single league/pyramid although get the desire to have different time zones.
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mike778
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby mike778 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:16 pm

Just to highlight this ...

A new English team will start in Division 3. Sri-Lankan new teams will start in Division 2. In fact looking at the Sri Lankan leagues, division 2 is mainly bots so any new Sri Lankan side has pretty easy access to the Division 1 riches.
Leader and supreme commander of Chester's finest (Chester Ducks) cricket team and now also manager of the mighty South African national side.

-English SOD Champions - S19, S20
-Short League Champions - S19, S20
-Runners up in English 2020 (S19) and Cup

Randall
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby Randall » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:44 pm

It is good to share our experiences of what we did and how we did it. And anyone can and should learn from any experienced manager. Little jewels are posted here frequently - take James and his 70% today as an example.

however that was the past and now is the now . If (and of course that is an if) we wanted more managers to arrive at the site and then more managers to stay you would wish to consider what potential barriers to that there are. Call it micro engineering.

One barrier maybe the funds they have. To consider whether that is a potential issue lets just see what the balances of groups of teams are - the information is available. That would be a solid position from which to give subjective opinions is all i am saying.

Getting to the top from Division 3 proves it can be done and is good to hear . We dont hear from the flip side of the managers who gave up because they werent so skilled and left. You may say that's Darwinism ! there is though an aspect of creating a oligopolistic scenario where the financial barriers to entry are imbalanced in terms of a goal or generating greater number of players (of course that may not be 'the' goal !). A goal could be in effect to remain a private members club where we play to a set of rules that does not change.

So all opinions are right , all speculations and theories good but please can we see some objective numbers to base them upon is really the core of my polite request!

Lunarlord34
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby Lunarlord34 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:02 pm

I mean, it isn't just sponsorship which is a big difference in what teams make. Gate takings are huge in div 1, and I mean huge. I don't have access to my old stuff I did on ticket prices, so I can't say for div 3 or 4. I'm also gonna say this with the assumption senior tickets are the same, I honestly can't remember if they are or not. But with some quick maths, I believe div 2 senior tickets to be worth $5.63 dollars a ticket rounded up. Meanwhile div 1 tickets are worth $7.5 a ticket. Meaning, say with the default 5k capacity a team in div 2 would earn $28,150. A div 1 team would earn $37,500. Now obviously no div 1 team in their right mind has 5k capacity, but it's just a random example.
Oh, which means I think div 3 teams tickets are worth about $4.23 a ticket? Pretty sure most things in this game work by multiplying by one and a third, but once again I did this so long ago I forget. But once again, that would be $21,165 for a div 3 game if the case. Dev is worthless as well. Not to mention splitting the money 75/25 for home/away and div 1 teams can very quickly earn profits. Especially as div 1 teams generally have a 'strong fanbase', thus also increasing the chances of higher attendances which obviously can rack up very quickly.

Odin
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby Odin » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:21 pm

What would happen if we all had the same sponsorship and gate fees?

Lunarlord34
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby Lunarlord34 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:16 pm

Odin wrote:What would happen if we all had the same sponsorship and gate fees?

I would imagine that teams with lesser wages would be the ones raking in the profits. Of course, they would probably have lesser success and whatnot which would effect gate takings but if ticket prices and gate takings were equal throughout all divisons you would probably see newer teams end up with a little too much cash for probably their own good. I mean, a lot of them mis-spend it as it is (i.e. ridiculous coaches, bidding on high wage players, etc.) But keep your squad nice and small, and there wouldn't be much excuse not to make a profit in that scenario. (Unless you have a squad of like 17 10K+ a week players lol)
But it also comes down to if it was all the same, how much would it be? Too little and top teams would go broke. Too much and lesser teams will end up with bucket loads of cash. While the second one is probably the better of the two, I would prefer the happy medium.

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Rhaegar
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Re: New season sponsorship

Postby Rhaegar » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:29 pm

If the lesser teams have buckets full of cash, that'll ultimately result in flooding the TM. No?


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