Training from experienced players

jammycarrot
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Training from experienced players

Postby jammycarrot » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:50 am

An idea:

What if there were a level of training for players (decreasing with age/experience difference) which came about from having an older/more experienced players with the same abilities in the team?

Example:

Take a team with a 30 year old RWS and a 19 year old RWS. The 19 year old would get a small training boost from the prescence and wisdom imparted from the older player. However, a 17 year old LFS would get nothing. Similarly for batting, a young inexperienced LHA could learn from another older LHA but not from a RHD. The exact amount of boost would depend on the difference between the age/experience of the players involved. It could be that a sinlge older player could give a boost to multiple youngsters. I feel this could be balanced with current training, probably through reducing the training given from playing matches.

Advantages:

This would give players with more experience more worth, both financially and in a team. It would also help differentiate youth training, as in reality, a high potential young spinner requires not just a generic bowling coach and game time, but a similar type spinner to impart wisdom. It may also make teams a bit more age balanced and allow a more natural combination of ages within a squad. And it would give a new dynamic to team building/coaching and transfer policy for players.

Other potential linked ideas:

Couple of other related ideas that could be brought in alongisde this:
- Youth pulls are weighted towards what you already have. If you have a squad which is heavy on attacking batsman and finger spinners, you'll be more likely to get offered similar in a scout report.
- Players who are learning from another player and have a spare charactistic space may learn a characteristic from the older player.
- Older players who are teaching newer players recieve a reduction in their degredation due to the new fangled techniques the kids teach them.
- Older players who have previously taught are more likely to have better coaching ability when they turn 30.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jammycarrot:
Manager of All In The Wrists http://www.stumpedgame.com/club.php?Team=178
Trophy Cabinet: Empty except a shiny gold star from his teacher
Current Ability: Can fit 2 whole jaffa cakes in his mouth at once

jammycarrot
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby jammycarrot » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:11 pm

Should obviously add that the level of training is also dependent on the ability of the older player, not just the experience. If you had a batsman who just happened to be a leg spinner but with 0 skill then obviously they wouldn't have any knowledge to impart!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jammycarrot:
Manager of All In The Wrists http://www.stumpedgame.com/club.php?Team=178
Trophy Cabinet: Empty except a shiny gold star from his teacher
Current Ability: Can fit 2 whole jaffa cakes in his mouth at once

James018
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby James018 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:56 pm

Flipside of this sort of thing is it would give teams that are already better/more well-established an extra advantage over newer/less experienced sides. It'd become even harder/take even longer for someone joining Stumped now to ever become competitive at the top level.

That said, I do like the management trade-off here. Many senior managers sell off their ageing, declining players to bring in fresh blood and get some money while those players still have some value. This would give some incentive to keep them around.

Randall
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:20 pm

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby Randall » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:36 pm

Jammy Carrot's post catapults us into a number of key issues.

No ideas good or bad are being implemented. If ideas expressed are just an echo into an empty valley then people lose the enthusiasm to voice them as it becomes a futile gesture (we clearly see that is occurring).

As James says an idea that benefits experienced players can potentially make the journey for new players more difficult. However at the moment no efforts are being made to find / attract or maintain new players so on that basis we should really look to the another issue...which is

The retention of long term players who without new innovations and with an ever increasing pot of money with nothing to spend on must be desperate for new ideas and challenges within the game.

On balance then as the vast majority of managers have been playing over 4 years we should look to them rather than the occasional lost lamb that arrives here and generally dies in the field. Managers here for more than 2 years vs Managers here under 1 must be a ratio of 10? 20? 50:1 so this is the electorate that needs catering to. (Of course I'd like to see everyone catered for, but that's another kettle of fish!)

Personally I like the idea but will enjoy seeing what cleverer , longer playing,more analytical managers give their considered thought - as this is really an idea to stimulate their interest. I understand though if no one bothers as they no longer have much hope of anything being taken up

Well done Jammy anyway

jammycarrot
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby jammycarrot » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 pm

James018 wrote:Flipside of this sort of thing is it would give teams that are already better/more well-established an extra advantage over newer/less experienced sides. It'd become even harder/take even longer for someone joining Stumped now to ever become competitive at the top level.


It's a fair point and I wouldn't want a change like this to result in that.The negatives could be heavily reduced by:

- Having an upper limit on training (i.e, once a player skill is over 30/35 they stop benefitting)
- Capping the maximum training gained from skill difference at, say, 20. In that example a youngster with 15 skill will learn equally quickly from a 40 or 50 skilled older person, but as the young player improves, the boost is reduced earlier from the lower skilled player.
- Making the effect more strongly related to age difference than skill/experience difference. If the effect of teaching from under-24 year olds is negligable, and it grows significantly past the age of 27, (which is the point that most top teams seem to have discarded them*), then top teams will have to effectively weaken their sides in order to hold on to 28 & 29 year olds that they would have previously discarded so they can benefit from the system.

These don't fully mitigate that difference entirely, but it would lessen it's effect. As a new player, you tend to get a few older, moderately skilled players already which could help them with any promising youngsters they may have been dealt quickly. And some 31-year old has-been on a low-ish wage could be a very useful person to not only guide a new team through Div 3 but quickly improve the younger players as they do.

*Had a quick check, in the top 2 teams in English SOD 1.1 there is no-one over 26, and only a handful older in the rest of the division.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jammycarrot:
Manager of All In The Wrists http://www.stumpedgame.com/club.php?Team=178
Trophy Cabinet: Empty except a shiny gold star from his teacher
Current Ability: Can fit 2 whole jaffa cakes in his mouth at once

mike778
Posts: 714
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby mike778 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:16 pm

I don't hate the idea.

Like Randall says though there is nothing being implemented at the moment and whilst this would be interesting, if there was going to be dev work, there is a lot of other stuff I would take over this and suspect it would be messy to balance.

An easier way of doing it might be to have a mentor Charactaristic. This would give all players in the squad a small coaching boost in the presence of a mentor. The downside would be the mentor themselves develops slower.

The training bonus would apply to all players at least x number of years younger than the mentor and only for skills where the mentor is x points higher in that skill. You could make it for bowling skills then would have to be same seamer/spinner.

Really though unless the devs indicate that they are likely to develop anything new then not much point debating. We had a whole thread of interesting Charactaristic ideas.
Leader and supreme commander of Chester's finest (Chester Ducks) cricket team and now also manager of the mighty South African national side.

-English SOD Champions - S19, S20, S21
-Short League Champions - S19, S20

mike778
Posts: 714
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby mike778 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:20 pm

Quite surprised about the lack of 26 year olds in the top teams, I know my title winning teams had quite a few older players in late 20s. Guess people get rid when they start plopping.

Might be a side effect of the bloated squads some teams have as its harder to keep skills up if they don't play every game.
Leader and supreme commander of Chester's finest (Chester Ducks) cricket team and now also manager of the mighty South African national side.

-English SOD Champions - S19, S20, S21
-Short League Champions - S19, S20

bumpuss
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby bumpuss » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:11 am

I think with this suggestion it does favor the top teams as they are more likely to have higher skilled older players AND younger talented players.

It would make it very difficult for new teams to catch up.

jammycarrot
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby jammycarrot » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:40 am

bumpuss wrote:I think with this suggestion it does favor the top teams as they are more likely to have higher skilled older players AND younger talented players.

It would make it very difficult for new teams to catch up.


There is a another thread in which there is discussion about top teams and older players. It turns out that a lot of the top squads get rid of players about 26/27, which in the case of this suggestion, would give them virtually no help as it currently stands. They would have to change their approach which I feel would benefit the game, but there would require some way of ensuring that the the boost for top teams isn't greater than the boost for lower teams. Maybe increase in training is purely by age difference as long as the older player is more skilled than the lower player? That would mean that the higher ability top teams gain nothing more than the lower teams. The top teams would have to trade off against current playing standard of the team and financially managing a larger squad of older players.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jammycarrot:
Manager of All In The Wrists http://www.stumpedgame.com/club.php?Team=178
Trophy Cabinet: Empty except a shiny gold star from his teacher
Current Ability: Can fit 2 whole jaffa cakes in his mouth at once

bumpuss
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

Re: Training from experienced players

Postby bumpuss » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:44 am

jammycarrot wrote:
bumpuss wrote:I think with this suggestion it does favor the top teams as they are more likely to have higher skilled older players AND younger talented players.

It would make it very difficult for new teams to catch up.


There is a another thread in which there is discussion about top teams and older players. It turns out that a lot of the top squads get rid of players about 26/27, which in the case of this suggestion, would give them virtually no help as it currently stands. They would have to change their approach which I feel would benefit the game, but there would require some way of ensuring that the the boost for top teams isn't greater than the boost for lower teams. Maybe increase in training is purely by age difference as long as the older player is more skilled than the lower player? That would mean that the higher ability top teams gain nothing more than the lower teams. The top teams would have to trade off against current playing standard of the team and financially managing a larger squad of older players.


Not only top squad get rid of players about 26/27. Pretty much all teams do it, because the younger players catch up. The top squads benefit most because their 26/27 that are being sold are of higher skill.

Just look at the type of players that higher ranked/skilled teams sell.


Return to “Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests