No old players?

Odin
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

No old players?

Postby Odin » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:42 pm

In this thread
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4390#p33084
it was suggested that the top teams don't have players older than 26 due to plopping.

Obviously we can ask the managers, but I think it's wrong.

Stumped, like all similar long term management strategy games, is actually about financial management. Think about it. If you have the money you can buy the players you want and win. Those top teams, I expect, have a long enough history in the game that they are already wealthy, meaning they have stellar players coming up. Since 25-26 is the latest you can sell a top player for a very high price it makes financial sense to do just that. I myself am approaching this play mode. When I reach it I'll be able to sustain my finances more easily. It's only really available to mature teams who have previously built their finances well, but it's the best way to keep them high while consistently winning.

MOD-tonk6464
Posts: 2807
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Re: No old players?

Postby MOD-tonk6464 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:50 am

I play to win senior matches and I use a mix of younger and older players. I often keep very good players into their 30s (age) as long as they are still well skilled and performing well. Karim Afridi is almost 37, although he's a late bloomer. Greg Berrisford is almost 34 although he is nearing retirement. Both are very high potential players.

Odin's way can work well too. There are multiple different approaches that can work well in Stumped.
Manager of The Tonkers
Champions of Div.1 SOD (9 times), Div.1 T20 (9 times), Div.1 DEV and Stumped! Cup
Ex-National Manager of Australia - Champions Season 10 and 17

Randall
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:20 pm

Re: No old players?

Postby Randall » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:56 am

Great post guys - very interesting - like reading this kind of stuff and hearing how different roads can lead to Rome!

jammycarrot
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Re: No old players?

Postby jammycarrot » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:04 pm

Done some number cruching on this, looking at the top teams in Eng/Aus/NZ and India.

On average across the top division, 1 in 8 players is aged 27 or higher (12.8%). However, 25% of the top division teams do not employee anyone aged 27 or above. A total of 16 players are over the age of 30.

However, that number of older players in a squad varies massively by country:

In New Zealand, that number becomes less than 1 in 20 (4.94%). Not a single player is aged 31 (one 30 year old), and half the teams do not have a playing member who is 27 or older. 3 teams have a oldest player who is 25 or under.
In India, the over 27's make up better than 1 in 5 players amongst the top squads. They also have the largest average squad size and most youth players. However, whilst they make up the majiority of 27+, they are nowhere near the top 30+ percentage - well done Australia for that (1 in 19 people are over 30 compared to just 1 in 42 in India).

Some numbers:

Australia
Average 27+ = 13.6%
Average 30+ = 5.7%
Oldest Squad = Carthagians (6 players 27+, 1 players 30+)
Number of teams with no 30+ = 4
Number of 30+ players = 8
Number of teams with no 27+ = 2
Number of 27+ players = 27
Ratio of 22-26 : 27+ = 2.07:1



New Zealand
Average 27+ = 4.94%
Average 30+ = 0%
Oldest Squad = Durham Elite (4 players 27+, 0 players 30+)
Number of teams with no 30+ = 8
Number of 30+ players = 0
Number of teams with no 27+ = 4
Number of 27+ players = 10
Ratio of 22-26 : 27+ = 5.60:1


England
Average 27+ = 12.4%
Average 30+ = 1.7%
Oldest Squad = Half Decent (8 players 27+, 2 players 30+)
Number of teams with no 30+ = 6
Number of 30+ players = 3
Number of teams with no 27+ = 2
Number of 27+ players = 21
Ratio of 22-26 : 27+ = 2.17:1


India
Average 27+ = 20.1%
Average 30+ = 2.2%
Oldest Squad = Velcoiraptors (7 players 27+, 1 players 30+)
Number of teams with no 30+ = 5
Number of 30+ players = 4
Number of teams with no 27+ = 0
Number of 27+ players = 38
Ratio of 22-26 : 27+ = 1.36:1


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Older teams tend to do worse in the league (Tonks being the big exception here!) - the percentage of 27+ and 30+ by position. Note that two of the 8th place teams appear to have had a bit of a clear out and so may account for the lower 8th place value. Also, sample size is small, be aware.

1st - 12.4% / 1.2%
2nd - 11.9% / 4.8%
3rd - 12.0% / 0.8%
4th - 11.2% / 0%
5th - 13.1% / 0.9%
6th - 16.2% / 3.4%
7th - 16.9% / 7.3%
8th - 8.67% / 0.9%

As an aside, Tonks, you're responsible for 25% of the top divisions 31+ year olds, 8 times more than an expected spread. Hope your team has good health insurance and a plentiful supply of zimmer frames!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Comparing that with average world cup squads in the world cup this year:
Number of squads with no 27+ = 0
Number of squads with no 30+ = 0
Number of 30+ players at tournment = 69 (nice).
Ratio of 22-26 year olds: 27+ = 0.28 -
i.e there were 4 times as many 27+ players than 22-26 year oldsa t the world cup last year. Even in Indian SOD, there are 1.3 times more 22-26 year olds than over 27's

I think it's fair to suggest that the age ratio of top squads in Stumped is significantly lower than anything in the real world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jammycarrot:
Manager of All In The Wrists http://www.stumpedgame.com/club.php?Team=178
Trophy Cabinet: Empty except a shiny gold star from his teacher
Current Ability: Can fit 2 whole jaffa cakes in his mouth at once

Stomalomalus
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:20 am

Re: No old players?

Postby Stomalomalus » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 pm

MOD-tonk6464 wrote:I play to win senior matches and I use a mix of younger and older players. I often keep very good players into their 30s (age) as long as they are still well skilled and performing well. Karim Afridi is almost 37, although he's a late bloomer. Greg Berrisford is almost 34 although he is nearing retirement. Both are very high potential players.

Odin's way can work well too. There are multiple different approaches that can work well in Stumped.


The thing is...over my time here I have pulled 1 player of 50+ potential. So how can I build those teams?

I can't compete in the TM, so I'm forced to buy players in the 44-47 potential bracket, all of whom are not likely to maintain a high enough level to get to their 30s.

I don't have a single homegrown 16,17or 18 year old in my squad, hence my relegation from DEV1 this year. I cannot compete in the TM and I cannot compete in production. Plus I cannot sell players for decent sums...because as the game has shrunk, the money only goes for those really good players at 49+ potential ability.
Manager of Pest CCC and Assistant to England NT
National Caps:
Ali Azmat (Pakistan) 9ODI, 1T20I, Kenny Sheldon (England) 7ODI, Andrew Bradfield (England) 5ODI, 1T20I, Firoz Subbanna (Bangladesh) 5T20I

MOD-tonk6464
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:31 am

Re: No old players?

Postby MOD-tonk6464 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:05 am

Interesting stats Jammy :thumbup:
Manager of The Tonkers
Champions of Div.1 SOD (9 times), Div.1 T20 (9 times), Div.1 DEV and Stumped! Cup
Ex-National Manager of Australia - Champions Season 10 and 17

liquefry
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 10:10 am

Re: No old players?

Postby liquefry » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:16 am

Personally I'd suggest a slower/later decline in the game, and a slower dev curve. 30 is an old player in stumped, but irl 30 would be peak. Tonks excepted! But his old players are outliers in skill levels too.

James018
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

Re: No old players?

Postby James018 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:32 am

I actually think the problem isn't necessarily skill decline. The fact that Tonk is successful with so many older players shows that players on the wrong side of 30 are still valuable at the top level. And careers are kept shorter in Stumped than in real life by design: if the same players are around for longer, than then means the same teams that have a brilliant generation of players will dominate for longer. Shorter careers forces change, and challenges the best teams to manage their side well if they want to stay where they are.

I think the problem is something unique to Stumped compared to other games: that players who have turned 22 and can't play DEV anymore have to play seniors regularly - preferably both SOD and T20 - in order to be viable long-term. Otherwise they won't get that extra level or two closer to potential, or may even start declining. Because of that, every time a player graduates from DEV, he has to be either sold (and there isn't much of a market for OK-potentially-good 22 year olds because everyone has the same problem) or a senior player in the side has to make way. Often, the latter ends up happening.

That's my read of the problem. Not sure what the solution is, to be honest.

bumpuss
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

Re: No old players?

Postby bumpuss » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:09 am

Solution is to increase the minimum age of players to 17-18 :lol: .

Good older players are valuable with their experience. The younger players will always catch up.

I dont think there any changes are necessary (maybe more players with late bloomer characteristic?).

James018
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

Re: No old players?

Postby James018 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:21 am

bumpuss wrote:Good older players are valuable with their experience. The younger players will always catch up.


In real life, perhaps, but In Stumped, they won't catch up - not as long as there are senior players taking their spot.


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