Training pace

YVRK
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Training pace

Postby YVRK » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:07 am

So I've decided to start training a few (not all) of my bowlers with their pace. The only problem is that my bowling coach is still of a pretty low skill (4 skill with at least one more week of coaching training needed). I gave pace training to two bowlers today but obviously I can't see any results until tomorrow's SOD (they didn't pop in variation or plop in accuracy as a side-effect either) However, I read on some past forums that 15 rated bowling coaches can only increase pace by about 0.5mph per week, so I honestly doubt that I'm going to make a long term difference with pace unless my bowling coach is at least 10 skill.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
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jammycarrot
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Re: Training pace

Postby jammycarrot » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:54 am

I have a 7 bowling coach.

I found a change in maximum speed of 78 to 94 mph happened in 22 weeks.
From then it took a further 15 weeks to hit 100 mph. And a further 13 to hit 104mph.


Knowing that 104 point something is the hard limit, I would say that, especially at lower speeds, it's much more than 0.5 mph a week. It appears to be only just under 0.5mph once I hit 90 mph.

But if you're going from Medium to Fast Medium, I'd say you can probably do that much quicker, even without a 15 bowling coach.
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YVRK
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Re: Training pace

Postby YVRK » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:01 am

jammycarrot wrote:I have a 7 bowling coach.

I found a change in maximum speed of 78 to 94 mph happened in 22 weeks.
From then it took a further 15 weeks to hit 100 mph. And a further 13 to hit 104mph.


Knowing that 104 point something is the hard limit, I would say that, especially at lower speeds, it's much more than 0.5 mph a week. It appears to be only just under 0.5mph once I hit 90 mph.

But if you're going from Medium to Fast Medium, I'd say you can probably do that much quicker, even without a 15 bowling coach.


One of the guys whom I'm training is a medium pacer, so I assume that from what you've said, training pace will work a bit like training regular skills: going from the low 60s to the low-mid 80s may only take just under two seasons with a coach of roughly 5 skill, but the rate of increase slow down as pace nears 95mph. I'm trying to get this guy to operate in the 80-90mph range at least by the time he comes out of DEV, though it would be nice if he could get his pace above 90mph,

I'm guessing that you have an effort bowler since I don't think that bowlers without the trait can bowl at 100 clicks or more.
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DEV-R0b1et
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Re: Training pace

Postby DEV-R0b1et » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:08 am

Its worth noting that medium pace covers a quite large range of speeds, and they don't perform identically.

rtj45
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Re: Training pace

Postby rtj45 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:27 am

DEV-R0b1et wrote:Its worth noting that medium pace covers a quite large range of speeds, and they don't perform identically.


Indeed, slow 60mph perform similarly to fast spinners and fast medium pacers are on a different planet altogether :)
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Re: Training pace

Postby DEV-R0b1et » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:43 am

So the slower medium pacers are probably bowling lots of cutters etc... and the quicker ones likely more swing.

God, its like someone knew what they were doing when they wrote this thing. :mrgreen:

YVRK
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Re: Training pace

Postby YVRK » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:47 pm

DEV-R0b1et wrote:So the slower medium pacers are probably bowling lots of cutters etc... and the quicker ones likely more swing.

God, its like someone knew what they were doing when they wrote this thing. :mrgreen:


On a side note, I remember reading something about the more extreme bowlers being the best ones. "Extreme" either means a proper fast bowler who averages 90mph or more, or the most medium pace trundler who's average speed is in the low 60s or maybe even in the high 50s.

So I imagine that if I had to determine how good a bowler is by speed, from what I understand it'd go like this (correct me if I'm wrong):

55-65mph (Medium pace) - Similar speeds to fast offspinners. Their pace makes batsmen more aggressive against them, resulting in higher economy but they will probably take wickets, especially in the death overs. Very effective on low bounce and green wickets.

65-75mph (Medium pace/medium-fast) - Pretty good with a swinging ball, especially those with high movement, but don't tend to be as effective later on in the innings, and their middle-of-the-road pace can actually mean that they can be expensive as well as not taking wickets. They'd also do decently on low bounce pitches

75-85mph (Medium-fast/fast-medium) - Probably the ideal speed range for many seam bowlers at the higher levels of the game, fast enough to keep the runs down but slow enough to get the ball to swing more as well as take wickets. Reverse swinger trait starts to be effective later on in the innings at these speeds.

85+mph (fast-medium/fast) - Their pace makes them much harder to get away so their economies are generally excellent, but they may not take as many wickets (Crazyman on another thread was talking about how Nirmesh Tickoo was ripping through lineups bowling at 80mph, but yet when his pace went up by about 5-10mph, he was noticeably less effective despite being more economical). While they don't swing the ball as much as MF or FM bowlers, their speed often makes up for it and plays a part in dismissals since a batsman's shot selection will be reduced. Reverse swinger is at its most effective at these speed. Their speed will generally make them good everywhere except for very low bounce pitches where the ball will come onto the bat more easily(they'll excel particularly on high bounce pitches)
Last edited by YVRK on Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
YVRK
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mike778
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Re: Training pace

Postby mike778 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:47 pm

If a bowler had a top speed of 60 mph, had no movement but loads of variations what would he actually be bowling? Let's say he had skills of. 19/3/19.

On that subject on Stumped, are variations actually a variation or is it just a modifier to the ball quality? Does the game actually recognise that he is bowling a specific variation. I know you get a slower ball in the commentary. Are there other variations.
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Re: Training pace

Postby DEV-R0b1et » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:54 pm

mike778 wrote:If a bowler had a top speed of 60 mph, had no movement but loads of variations what would he actually be bowling? Let's say he had skills of. 19/3/19.

On that subject on Stumped, are variations actually a variation or is it just a modifier to the ball quality? Does the game actually recognise that he is bowling a specific variation. I know you get a slower ball in the commentary. Are there other variations.


Complicated to answer in a useful way... maybe impossible... just because of the way the game works - I guess you could argue everything is "just a modifier to the ball quality".

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Re: Training pace

Postby mike778 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:02 pm

The way I see it, there are two sort of routes.

1. Game decides whether bowler is bowling a normal ball or a variation using whatever formula it does to work it out. Then how good the ball is depends on players skills. If its a slower ball say it may be far more weighted towards variations. If its a normal ball then Accuraccy and pace may be more important.

2. Bowler bowls ball. Game works out how good it is depending on fancy formula taking into account everything. If it's near the end then variations are big in the formula, if at the start then they are less prominent in the formula.

Obviously that's a big simplification but just wondering out loud which of the two is nearer.
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