Transfer Market Action

YVRK
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby YVRK » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:00 am

Molle wrote:Seems rather Standard-esque to me :thumbdown:


Definitely. No way that one of those players was worth 35k, iirc that was a 20yo 40 pot bat. Panuria Champions have been another new team who have recently been created but I don't know if they are connected to this
YVRK
Leader of the mighty penguins of of Britannia (The Penguin Squad) as well as their South African franchise team (Rockhoppers CC)

conradij
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby conradij » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:08 am

YVRK wrote:Wristpinners look really scarce on the TM atm. I need a second leggie to compliment Blackwell when we play on dryer tracks as well as to maybe fill in for him if he's fatigued. The fingerspinner whom I have in my squad is barely playing these days due to my track being green and bouncy, needs to go to a better home where he'll actually be used.


Someone like him : https://www.stumpedgame.com/player.php?Player=210412
Main team: Pro Crastinators (and Tobe Determined CC)
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YVRK
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby YVRK » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:47 am

conradij wrote:
YVRK wrote:Wristpinners look really scarce on the TM atm. I need a second leggie to compliment Blackwell when we play on dryer tracks as well as to maybe fill in for him if he's fatigued. The fingerspinner whom I have in my squad is barely playing these days due to my track being green and bouncy, needs to go to a better home where he'll actually be used.


Someone like him : https://www.stumpedgame.com/player.php?Player=210412


Oooh he looks really good but is already out of my price range anyway, and is probably too talented for me given that I only play one spinner at my home track. No fear because I've found a good wristpinner who has 36 batting potential
YVRK
Leader of the mighty penguins of of Britannia (The Penguin Squad) as well as their South African franchise team (Rockhoppers CC)

YVRK
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby YVRK » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:58 pm

There are an awful lot of good potential pure bowlers on the market atm (mid 40s potential and I even saw one or two high 40s potential bowlers), some of whom have traits and stamina to match their skills, who are barely fetching 10k. I get that batsmen are more valued given that you need more batsmen than bowlers, but 41 pot batsmen tend to go for more than 46 pot bowlers these days. I think that tail batting is a major part of this, but how far do people go with batting deep? Do you guys have an allocation of how many bowlers can't bat in your team? Currently my team has batting down till 9 or sometimes 10 so I can't really talk, but would you rather take a 42 bat pot 42 bowl pot all-rounder or a 50 pot pure bowler ( assuming both have suitable traits as well) if your tail batting quota was already satisfied and you just needed to make an objective choice?

I must say that the new teams who are bidding on these pure bowlers are getting a fantastic deal.
Last edited by YVRK on Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
YVRK
Leader of the mighty penguins of of Britannia (The Penguin Squad) as well as their South African franchise team (Rockhoppers CC)

conradij
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby conradij » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:25 pm

I think it's quite easy to get mid 40s bowlers so they're quite cheap as most teams have them. Price goes up rapidly when high 40s or signficant batting is added.

A mid 40s bat is useful to any team: top bat in a developing team; back-up bat in a top team. If he often fails, that's ok; as long as a couple of other don't and he occasionally performs well. Bowlers are different, you can't hide them so they have to be good, or make-up for it with good batting.

For example I just bought a 44 skill reverse swinger... I reckon he'd be worth 100,000 or less. If he didn't have 43 batting. But he did so I paid £800,000.
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mike778
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby mike778 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:52 pm

YVRK wrote:There are an awful lot of good potential pure bowlers on the market atm (mid 40s potential and I even saw one or two high 40s potential bowlers), some of whom have traits and stamina to match their skills, who are barely fetching 10k. I get that batsmen are more valued given that you need more batsmen than bowlers, but 41 pot batsmen tend to go for more than 46 pot bowlers these days. I think that tail batting is a major part of this, but how far do people go with batting deep? Do you guys have an allocation of how many bowlers can't bat in your team? Currently my team has batting down till 9 or sometimes 10 so I can't really talk, but would you rather take a 42 bat pot 42 bowl pot all-rounder or a 50 pot pure bowler ( assuming both have suitable traits as well) if your tail batting quota was already satisfied and you just needed to make an objective choice?

I must say that the new teams who are bidding on these pure bowlers are getting a fantastic deal.


I target batting to 9. Generally something like 5 pure bats, a keeper who can do an impersonation of a specialist bat, 1 pure all-rounder who again could impersonate a specialist bat and then 2 bowling all rounders who can attack. Doesn't always work out like that but its the kind of template I go with.

10 and 11 I don't care about the batting at all - they often don't bat so not worth hassle in keeping their batting up. So these guys need to be gun fielders, star bowlers or ideally both.

The Match Engine supposedly tries to use 70% of your batting which equates to 7 wickets meaning 9 guys bat. Doesn't always work out like that but looking at matches versus innings, definite drop-off from 9 to 10 in how often they get to bat.
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James018
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby James018 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:27 am

It's not just new teams cashing in on these deals - I just bought a 47 potential bowler (with Economical, good stamina and good fielding) for only 75k!

I think the market has just swung heavily towards all-rounders for the time being. I can see this reflected in my current team. Being someone who sets a pre-determined "value" for each player depending on their skills, I tend to find my squad reflects types of players that are currently undervalued on the market (the result being that I pick them up cheaply while being outbid on overvalued player types). In my current senior team I'm playing five specialist bowlers, only one of whom (Faraz) could be considered a bowling all-rounder. My next two bowlers to come through the youth team are both pure bowlers, too.

To put it in context, I'm getting as much, if not more success with my current side than in the early days of Stumped, when I was blessed with a glut of great all-rounders: Caldwell, Brown, Drake, and Johnson could bat a bit, too. Yes, extra batting depth can help a lot. But sacrificing some lower-order batting for higher bowling skill can definitely pay off, too.

Stomalomalus
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby Stomalomalus » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:30 pm

YVRK wrote:There are an awful lot of good potential pure bowlers on the market atm (mid 40s potential and I even saw one or two high 40s potential bowlers), some of whom have traits and stamina to match their skills, who are barely fetching 10k. I get that batsmen are more valued given that you need more batsmen than bowlers, but 41 pot batsmen tend to go for more than 46 pot bowlers these days. I think that tail batting is a major part of this, but how far do people go with batting deep? Do you guys have an allocation of how many bowlers can't bat in your team? Currently my team has batting down till 9 or sometimes 10 so I can't really talk, but would you rather take a 42 bat pot 42 bowl pot all-rounder or a 50 pot pure bowler ( assuming both have suitable traits as well) if your tail batting quota was already satisfied and you just needed to make an objective choice?

I must say that the new teams who are bidding on these pure bowlers are getting a fantastic deal.


There is a lack of bats in Stumped at the moment. Whether that's just pure luck or that bats have more requirements to be considered good enough, I don't know. But judging it on the skills of the player you pull does not tell the story. I've been pulling the player with the best batting average exclusively for quite a while and none of my last 13 have been good enough to keep, and only 1 has been good enough to attract a bid. He was a bowler.
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YVRK
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby YVRK » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:34 pm

Stomalomalus wrote:
YVRK wrote:There are an awful lot of good potential pure bowlers on the market atm (mid 40s potential and I even saw one or two high 40s potential bowlers), some of whom have traits and stamina to match their skills, who are barely fetching 10k. I get that batsmen are more valued given that you need more batsmen than bowlers, but 41 pot batsmen tend to go for more than 46 pot bowlers these days. I think that tail batting is a major part of this, but how far do people go with batting deep? Do you guys have an allocation of how many bowlers can't bat in your team? Currently my team has batting down till 9 or sometimes 10 so I can't really talk, but would you rather take a 42 bat pot 42 bowl pot all-rounder or a 50 pot pure bowler ( assuming both have suitable traits as well) if your tail batting quota was already satisfied and you just needed to make an objective choice?

I must say that the new teams who are bidding on these pure bowlers are getting a fantastic deal.


There is a lack of bats in Stumped at the moment. Whether that's just pure luck or that bats have more requirements to be considered good enough, I don't know. But judging it on the skills of the player you pull does not tell the story. I've been pulling the player with the best batting average exclusively for quite a while and none of my last 13 have been good enough to keep, and only 1 has been good enough to attract a bid. He was a bowler.


Judging from these comments following my first one about this, I’ve come up with a crude thesis.

In Stumped you need a minimum of 6 guys who can bat (if we assume that the keeper can bat) which usually means 5 batsmen and a wicketkeeper who “does an impression of a specialist bat” as Mike put it. Already by those minimum standards alone you will need to have slightly more batsmen than bowlers in your club squad, making batsmen more valuable already. Then you have to consider the roles that batsmen can play in a squad as conradij talked about, a batsman with potential in the low to mid 40s will always be useful whether as a backup or a main batsman, and even if they fail so long as some other batsmen pull through it’ll be fine. While with bowlers, they have to be good enough to pull their weight at the division that they’re playing at. Generally people use 5 bowler strategies in this game due to the mechanics of in game training limiting the use of batting all-rounders to fill in overs as it will mean that bowlers will not get as much IGT, meaning that usually your bowler will be bowling all 10 overs, so they have to be good enough to make it count.

Then there’s tail batting. While of course as James said, high quality bowling can soemtim s make up for a lack of lower order batting skill, in general that is not the case, and it must also be said that James is one of the most skilled managers playing the game and so probably knows how to manage a team with all specialist bowlers pretty well. For most of us, tail batting not only helps in clutch situations, but also means that scores will be generally higher. Mike said that the ME uses about 70% of your batting, and if you have a team with only 6 guys who can bat, it means that that your players will play more conservatively, especially if quick wickets fall, and could lead to attacking players in the middle order playing defensively (usually against their skill set - a big no-no) to shield the tail. Whearas with a strong tail, batsmen will have a licence to play freely, particularly middle order batsmen.

This means that people will have pretty lofty expectations of bowlers whom they are looking for on the market. If they’re a pure bowler, they need to be amazing at bowling, preferably with fielding and traits to suit. Or else they need to make up for their relative lack of bowling skill with their batting, or gun fielding or possibly imbalance backed up by traits and stamina allowing them to perform a role. The point is, a 44 pot batsman with no traits and base fielding and stamina can still incredibly valuable to any team while a pure bowler like that would barely fetch anything, as they would not be able to make up for their low skill with fielding or batting, and with them having to still bowl 10 overs regardless, they won’t be so sought after.

So TL;DR, batsmen are more flexible cause you can hide them in a way if they aren’t as good, bowlers have to bowl 10 overs due to IGT requirements so need to be either excellent at what they do or have batting to back them up, with lower order batting increasing average score making all-rounders more in demand with prices for pure bowlers dropping.
YVRK
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mike778
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Re: Transfer Market Action

Postby mike778 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:51 am

That's a pretty good analysis.

There is also a feeling that bowlers don't impact the game enough hence the arguments of strike rates against BQ. I think that's overblown, if you put out a team with five bad bowlers you will give up a much bigger score than if you put out a team with five good bowlers. But it's still generally considered that batting is more important than bowling in the ME.

Even if thats wrong... the fact people think it - will impact the transfer fees of pure bowlers.
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