Bowling Speed

Boxer
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby Boxer » Sun May 02, 2021 11:31 am

James018 wrote:
conradij wrote:What is considered 'fast' or 'slow' when talking about spin bowlers?


As best I can tell, wrist spinners have a maximum bowling speed between around 42mph and 48mph, and finger spinners between 48mph and 60mph. (This doesn't count effort bowlers, who bowl slightly faster effort balls than their "regular" maximum speed regardless of their bowling type.)


Thanks to all the additional postings from managers since I last looked in. Excellent debate and knowledge - real detailed stuff and viewpoints... I can add nothing (just a sponge here), which is why I started the thread..... one thing I could add to the tributary subject of wrist spinners - was that I have a 16 year old wrist spinner who has played 45 matches - his fastest ball is 46.3 mph (very consistent as his fastest ball all 5 different types of games is 46.2 or 46.3 !) . The 3 finger spinners that have played for my team so far had a top ball of between 49 and 58 (again in the James 018 'zone' - quite a difference though [ the fastest finger spinner is my best spinner skill and experience wise, so does that mean FS get faster and better as they get older/more experienced} The development of speed is something you never see in the same way as your skills hadily plop a different colour each week, unless you go to the stats or drill down on a player you would never see speeds nor be able to determine their historical progression

Molle
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby Molle » Sun May 02, 2021 12:12 pm

Any thoughts or theories on how spinners bowling speeds interact with the Flight and Guile trait?

conradij
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby conradij » Sun May 02, 2021 12:58 pm

Molle wrote:Any thoughts or theories on how spinners bowling speeds interact with the Flight and Guile trait?


I'm not sure what you mean... The trait will cause more wickets and concede more runs. You could say it is similar to speed change but likely to be weighted more powerfully: more wickets for less runs conceded when compared to bowling speed change e.g. Wickets increased like a 10mph bowling change with runs conceded like a 5mph. But this is completely arbitrary guesswork.
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James018
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby James018 » Mon May 03, 2021 7:24 am

Boxer wrote:
James018 wrote:
conradij wrote:What is considered 'fast' or 'slow' when talking about spin bowlers?


As best I can tell, wrist spinners have a maximum bowling speed between around 42mph and 48mph, and finger spinners between 48mph and 60mph. (This doesn't count effort bowlers, who bowl slightly faster effort balls than their "regular" maximum speed regardless of their bowling type.)


Thanks to all the additional postings from managers since I last looked in. Excellent debate and knowledge - real detailed stuff and viewpoints... I can add nothing (just a sponge here), which is why I started the thread..... one thing I could add to the tributary subject of wrist spinners - was that I have a 16 year old wrist spinner who has played 45 matches - his fastest ball is 46.3 mph (very consistent as his fastest ball all 5 different types of games is 46.2 or 46.3 !) . The 3 finger spinners that have played for my team so far had a top ball of between 49 and 58 (again in the James 018 'zone' - quite a difference though [ the fastest finger spinner is my best spinner skill and experience wise, so does that mean FS get faster and better as they get older/more experienced} The development of speed is something you never see in the same way as your skills hadily plop a different colour each week, unless you go to the stats or drill down on a player you would never see speeds nor be able to determine their historical progression


I keep track of my players' bowling speeds week by week. Apart from the points I mentioned earlier, their maximum speeds don't change. I suspect it's just a coincidence that your best performed spinner is your fastest, and/or perhaps his skillset suits quicker bowling better.

Molle
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby Molle » Mon May 03, 2021 9:36 am

conradij wrote:I'm not sure what you mean...


Hypothetically if you had an 10/14, 10/14, 10/14 F&G offie bowling 54mph (i.e. bang on middle) and were destined to play on 50 bounce pitches from here to eternity, would you up his speed via L&L or decrease it via S/S/S training?

James018
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby James018 » Mon May 03, 2021 11:50 am

Molle wrote:
conradij wrote:I'm not sure what you mean...


Hypothetically if you had an 10/14, 10/14, 10/14 F&G offie bowling 54mph (i.e. bang on middle) and were destined to play on 50 bounce pitches from here to eternity, would you up his speed via L&L or decrease it via S/S/S training?


That would be an interesting conundrum to investigate (on balance, given a choice between the two I would go L&L) but to directly answer the original question, whether he has F&G or not would probably not impact my choice.

Squarebear
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby Squarebear » Thu May 06, 2021 8:53 am

This may be a load of anecdotal tosh.

I have an economical reverse swing bowler. He typically bowled at high 60s. He'd get the odd wicket but bowling him in the middle overs of a OD match he was great for applying the brakes on scoring rate.

"If", I decided, "he just bowled a bit quicker he could be devastating", so I trained him up to high 70s.

You know what? He's turned into a damned liability. They're caning him to all corners of the ground. I'm now training his accuracy now in an attempt to slow him down.

conradij
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby conradij » Thu May 06, 2021 9:04 am

Squarebear wrote:This may be a load of anecdotal tosh.

I have an economical reverse swing bowler. He typically bowled at high 60s. He'd get the odd wicket but bowling him in the middle overs of a OD match he was great for applying the brakes on scoring rate.

"If", I decided, "he just bowled a bit quicker he could be devastating", so I trained him up to high 70s.

You know what? He's turned into a damned liability. They're caning him to all corners of the ground. I'm now training his accuracy now in an attempt to slow him down.


I find the announcement 'he's really got it reversing' is usually followed by bounderies :lol:
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Stomalomalus
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby Stomalomalus » Thu May 06, 2021 9:14 am

Squarebear wrote:This may be a load of anecdotal tosh.

I have an economical reverse swing bowler. He typically bowled at high 60s. He'd get the odd wicket but bowling him in the middle overs of a OD match he was great for applying the brakes on scoring rate.

"If", I decided, "he just bowled a bit quicker he could be devastating", so I trained him up to high 70s.

You know what? He's turned into a damned liability. They're caning him to all corners of the ground. I'm now training his accuracy now in an attempt to slow him down.


Azmat isn't economical, but when I first bought Mason, I set Azmat to bowl as if he were economical and he did a very good job. He kept it really tight but his average was insane as the wickets pretty much dried up completely.

Because of this, I changed up the tactics and suddenly he was a wicket taking machine again, and his economy wasn't terrible. But Mason suddenly became a liability at the other end...

Orders can have a huge influence on economy and averages, not just bowling speed and skill. Even if the changes seem small.
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Squarebear
Posts: 194
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Re: Bowling Speed

Postby Squarebear » Thu May 06, 2021 9:59 am

Stomalomalus wrote:Orders can have a huge influence on economy and averages, not just bowling speed and skill. Even if the changes seem small.


Cheers. Noted.

I've been setting more defensive fields in the hope of stemming the flood of runs but typically this seems to drive batsmen into more of a frenzy of aggression. I might stick a couple of slips in around over 28 and see what that does.


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