Coaching Stars

Boxer
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:45 am

Coaching Stars

Postby Boxer » Thu May 06, 2021 11:17 am

With the latest skill increase results received and reviewed the thoughts of a manager in the crawling stage of his evolution turn to coaching and namely coaching stars!

Here is what I know: (please correct me if I am wrong!)


Alongside IGT - Coaching a player in a certain skill will increase the speed at which that skill increases (albeit sometimes to the potential detriment of another - a different topic of future thought!)
How fast that skill increases will be heavily influenced by its actual level of skill in relation to its potential final skill. (Going from 3 to 6 will be much quicker than 26 to 29)
In regards Coaching opportunity each player will have 1 to 5 stars against his name for each skill. The more stars the better the rate of coaching improvement can be made (however this also depends on how skilled the coach is)

Here is what I am wondering about: (For the purposes of this assume that all coaches have a skill level of 10).

Assume Grace and Hobbs are both 18 years and 0 weeks. They have identical actual batting skill of 30 (split evenly 10/10/10) and equal potential of 42 (14/14/14). They also have 3 stars against each of their 3 skills. Assuming they received identical IGT would the improvement in their skill based on coaching occur at exactly the same rate???

Let us now take Grace (or Hobbs if they are identical). It is hard to split out if an increase in 1 skill level is due to IGT or Coaching. However let us assume coaching has increased a skill level by 1 over 4 weeks and Grace had 3 stars. Can we extrapolate from that that 3 stars adds 0.25 skill levels per week? If so what is the relationship of stars to each other? IF 3 stars adds 0.25 skill levels per week would 2 add 0.167 per week and 1 star 0.833 per week, 4 stars 0.33 per week and 5 stars 0.5 per week? (I am aware here that other variable such as age / relationship ratio of actual to potential are always moving and that like stamina their underlying skill levels (and maybe coaching stars too?) are not an absolute number as headlined but possibly always on 'the move')

I guess in a nutshell I am asking is there a constant relationship between the impact of stars so that 1= 20%, 2 = 40% , 3 = 60% 4 = 80% and 5 = 100%


Next : is the relationship of stars between skills unique only to each players or across players? So does Hobbs train at the same speed as Grace because he has 3 stars for attacking batting. Or is that only representative of Hobbs attacking batting coaching speed against his other coaching skills opportunity and his 3 stars are actually way better in actual coaching time than Grace's?

Following from that (in a similar vein) are stars EQUAL across different skill types (this is important when considering an A/R)?
So If Botham has actual batting skill of 30 (10/10/10) and bowling skill of 30 (10/10/10) with potential to be 42 in both of them (14/14/14) and has 3 stars for each skill in coaching - would each skill take the same time to coach up a level be it bowling or batting [ same question for a keeper/ batsmen]

The importance of stars relative to each other is pretty crucial for the long terms and weekly coaching decisions of the finite resources of available coaches and time (age) - If 1 star actually reflects an improvement of 0 then when a players hits 1 star further coaching is utterly futile and wasted.

I think I will stop there - my head is hurting!

(Note - I made all coaches level 10 for the chat to remove one variable from the discussion. Of course coaching skill level can be a subject all on its own for discussion - is a coach of 10 only 50% as good as one of 20 ? - i do know that in terms of their wages a 20 coach is more than 100% of the cost of a 10 coach - but I would not expect his coaching provides 100% improvement. I am thinking it may work similar to the IGT benefit obtained from bowling where bowling one over in a SOD gives much more benefit than bowling your 10th - but but but.... another time , another thread?)

conradij
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:31 am

Re: Coaching Stars

Postby conradij » Thu May 06, 2021 11:51 am

Boxer wrote:With the latest skill increase results received and reviewed the thoughts of a manager in the crawling stage of his evolution turn to coaching and namely coaching stars!

Here is what I know: (please correct me if I am wrong!)


Alongside IGT - Coaching a player in a certain skill will increase the speed at which that skill increases (albeit sometimes to the potential detriment of another - a different topic of future thought!)
How fast that skill increases will be heavily influenced by its actual level of skill in relation to its potential final skill. (Going from 3 to 6 will be much quicker than 26 to 29)
In regards Coaching opportunity each player will have 1 to 5 stars against his name for each skill. The more stars the better the rate of coaching improvement can be made (however this also depends on how skilled the coach is)

Here is what I am wondering about: (For the purposes of this assume that all coaches have a skill level of 10).

Assume Grace and Hobbs are both 18 years and 0 weeks. They have identical actual batting skill of 30 (split evenly 10/10/10) and equal potential of 42 (14/14/14). They also have 3 stars against each of their 3 skills. Assuming they received identical IGT would the improvement in their skill based on coaching occur at exactly the same rate???

Let us now take Grace (or Hobbs if they are identical). It is hard to split out if an increase in 1 skill level is due to IGT or Coaching. However let us assume coaching has increased a skill level by 1 over 4 weeks and Grace had 3 stars. Can we extrapolate from that that 3 stars adds 0.25 skill levels per week? If so what is the relationship of stars to each other? IF 3 stars adds 0.25 skill levels per week would 2 add 0.167 per week and 1 star 0.833 per week, 4 stars 0.33 per week and 5 stars 0.5 per week? (I am aware here that other variable such as age / relationship ratio of actual to potential are always moving and that like stamina their underlying skill levels (and maybe coaching stars too?) are not an absolute number as headlined but possibly always on 'the move')

I guess in a nutshell I am asking is there a constant relationship between the impact of stars so that 1= 20%, 2 = 40% , 3 = 60% 4 = 80% and 5 = 100%


Next : is the relationship of stars between skills unique only to each players or across players? So does Hobbs train at the same speed as Grace because he has 3 stars for attacking batting. Or is that only representative of Hobbs attacking batting coaching speed against his other coaching skills opportunity and his 3 stars are actually way better in actual coaching time than Grace's?

Following from that (in a similar vein) are stars EQUAL across different skill types (this is important when considering an A/R)?
So If Botham has actual batting skill of 30 (10/10/10) and bowling skill of 30 (10/10/10) with potential to be 42 in both of them (14/14/14) and has 3 stars for each skill in coaching - would each skill take the same time to coach up a level be it bowling or batting [ same question for a keeper/ batsmen]

The importance of stars relative to each other is pretty crucial for the long terms and weekly coaching decisions of the finite resources of available coaches and time (age) - If 1 star actually reflects an improvement of 0 then when a players hits 1 star further coaching is utterly futile and wasted.

I think I will stop there - my head is hurting!

(Note - I made all coaches level 10 for the chat to remove one variable from the discussion. Of course coaching skill level can be a subject all on its own for discussion - is a coach of 10 only 50% as good as one of 20 ? - i do know that in terms of their wages a 20 coach is more than 100% of the cost of a 10 coach - but I would not expect his coaching provides 100% improvement. I am thinking it may work similar to the IGT benefit obtained from bowling where bowling one over in a SOD gives much more benefit than bowling your 10th - but but but.... another time , another thread?)


If it makes things simpler, I ignore stars. My interpretation is that they're an attempt to make training simpler, but in reality it makes it appear more complicated.

My training principles are:
1) rotate after each pop
2) train the skill furthest away from potential
3) adjust 2 based on long-term training plans for team
Main team: Pro Crastinators (and Tobe Determined CC)
http://www.stumpedgame.com/club.php?Team=126
Cup winners season 22
England DEV champion seasons 16, 23 and 25
Season 26: Runner-up, in everything

paul857
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:20 pm
Location: Alloa

Re: Coaching Stars

Postby paul857 » Thu May 06, 2021 12:20 pm

Agree with the above. My only comment would be to not train to full potential as it drops off very quickly so you’re forever putting nets on when it’s unnecessary.
Manager of EurAfrica-based Astronomy Domine and America-based franchise Cow Corner.

James018
Posts: 1795
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:30 am

Re: Coaching Stars

Postby James018 » Thu May 06, 2021 2:27 pm

Firstly, my assumption with stars has always been that they are a simple approximation of a far more complex calculation for coaching effectiveness. I would suspect, for example, that you might have two players with 3 stars, but there is a sizeable difference between their real effectiveness because one is only just above 2 stars (e.g. their actual effectiveness might be 2.6 stars) and the other is close to 4 stars (3.4).

A while ago, I tracked stars for all my squad for a number of weeks, using the above assumption and some mathematical modelling to try and figure out exactly how they depended on player skill and potential. My conclusion was they depended mainly on the gap between skill and potential (e.g. 5 current skill and 15 potential is a gap of 10), with a slight bias towards higher potential as more important than lower skill (e.g. 10 skill/20 potential coaches slightly faster than 5 skill/15 potential).

I have an equation giving the coaching speed based on my modelling (it doesn't work for everything but is close enough for my purposes). But really, just the above knowledge is all you need. The rest is all about your own coaching strategy: do you simply coach whoever will get the most improvement, do you take into account the player's age and try to coach people who you think are "behind schedule" in a skill, do you instead focus on players already near potential to try and get them an extra boost that they won't get through in-game training? They're all valid options and I think there are people on Stumped in each camp.

Regarding the coaching speed versus number of stars relationship (is it constant/linear or not) - I generally assume, with no information to the contrary, that it's roughly linear. However, no one knows for sure: the variables of age, in-game training and decline makes it far too hard to track.

And as for coaching ability versus effectiveness, from memory, the DEVs have said before that that relationship is NOT linear, but did not say whether it curved up or down. In other words, we know that the difference between a 15 coach and a 10 coach is either more or less than that between a 10 and a 5, but we don't know which! I suspect it's less, but again, it's near impossible to prove.

mike778
Posts: 1314
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: Coaching Stars

Postby mike778 » Thu May 06, 2021 3:02 pm

I think you are overthinking this a bit. To my knowledge two things affect how fast a player will train (outside or coach quality)

1. Distance from potential
2. Current skill

Generally they work together. If a player has higher current skill then they will be closer to potential. But a player who is 3/5 will train faster than a player 17/20

The stars just summarise that to make it quick to read. So 3 stars train faster than 2. That's really all you need to know. Two 3 star players won't train at the exact same speed because of sub levels.
Leader and supreme commander of Chester Ducks .... (and SA Ducks)

SOD Champions - S19, S20, S21 (England), S27 (Euro-Africa)
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