England v Australia Series

rtj45
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Re: England v Australia Series

Postby rtj45 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:12 am

liquefry wrote:
rtj45 wrote:Eh man for man they arent great imo. Warner is a great player but he is a flat pitch bully, smith and Maxwell are the only real international bats in that side. Stoinis is a glorified Craig Overton and marsh would be lucky to be in the same calibre imo. Finch is a reasonable opener but he isnt as inventive as Roy or bairstow and can be "tamed". I think labuschagne is a super test player but not a one day player. Just think they lack the spark that england have.


I don't like Warner, but he is a class bat. His ODI average is better in England (48), India (56) and the Windies (46) than it is in Australia (45.5). It's not great in Sri Lanka or UAE but you're buying into media BS to call him a flat track bully, the stats just don't back this up. In last year's world cup he averaged 72... I'd suggest he's just having a bad season so far, not that he can't play in England. Finch/Roy/Bairstow are all pretty equivalent IMO. Bairstow is terrible outside England. Outside the world cup, Roy has been meh for his whole career. Like the other two, Finch has been great in patches but is hit and miss. Agree on Stoinis and Marsh though.


Maybe flat track bully is particularly harsh on Warner, but does he really offer that much? If you went on to a non batting friendly pitch how much confidence would you have on Warner making runs? I wouldn't have much hope tbh but might just be being cynical. Finch is a good player agreed but in one days you need to be a bit inventive at times and he isnt as good as Roy or Bairstow at that element of the game, granted in terms of stats there isnt much between them but once again if the pitch was tough you'd still expect Bairstow or Roy to score somewhat briskly by being creative. On the other hand Maxwell and Smith are superb bats, creative and typically Australian in that you have to generally work hard to get them out without them compounding misery on a lacklustre bowling attack.
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Stomalomalus
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Re: England v Australia Series

Postby Stomalomalus » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:18 am

liquefry wrote:
rtj45 wrote:Eh man for man they arent great imo. Warner is a great player but he is a flat pitch bully, smith and Maxwell are the only real international bats in that side. Stoinis is a glorified Craig Overton and marsh would be lucky to be in the same calibre imo. Finch is a reasonable opener but he isnt as inventive as Roy or bairstow and can be "tamed". I think labuschagne is a super test player but not a one day player. Just think they lack the spark that england have.


I don't like Warner, but he is a class bat. His ODI average is better in England (48), India (56) and the Windies (46) than it is in Australia (45.5). It's not great in Sri Lanka or UAE but you're buying into media BS to call him a flat track bully, the stats just don't back this up. In last year's world cup he averaged 72... I'd suggest he's just having a bad season so far, not that he can't play in England. Finch/Roy/Bairstow are all pretty equivalent IMO. Bairstow is terrible outside England. Outside the world cup, Roy has been meh for his whole career. Like the other two, Finch has been great in patches but is hit and miss. Agree on Stoinis and Marsh though.


Is he class, though, or was he class? It seems to me like on a bowling friendly pitch, he can be got early doors quite easily. If you let him settle, he can score big.

Stoinis is just meh personified.

If you picked a combined team, you'd be hard pressed to find a place for more than 3 or 4 Aussies and they'd be the bowlers! Jeez, think of Archer, Wood, Cummings, Hazlewood, Zampa...
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WaddyWoody
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Re: England v Australia Series

Postby WaddyWoody » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:16 am

Stomalomalus wrote:
liquefry wrote:
rtj45 wrote:Eh man for man they arent great imo. Warner is a great player but he is a flat pitch bully, smith and Maxwell are the only real international bats in that side. Stoinis is a glorified Craig Overton and marsh would be lucky to be in the same calibre imo. Finch is a reasonable opener but he isnt as inventive as Roy or bairstow and can be "tamed". I think labuschagne is a super test player but not a one day player. Just think they lack the spark that england have.


I don't like Warner, but he is a class bat. His ODI average is better in England (48), India (56) and the Windies (46) than it is in Australia (45.5). It's not great in Sri Lanka or UAE but you're buying into media BS to call him a flat track bully, the stats just don't back this up. In last year's world cup he averaged 72... I'd suggest he's just having a bad season so far, not that he can't play in England. Finch/Roy/Bairstow are all pretty equivalent IMO. Bairstow is terrible outside England. Outside the world cup, Roy has been meh for his whole career. Like the other two, Finch has been great in patches but is hit and miss. Agree on Stoinis and Marsh though.


Is he class, though, or was he class? It seems to me like on a bowling friendly pitch, he can be got early doors quite easily. If you let him settle, he can score big.

Stoinis is just meh personified.

If you picked a combined team, you'd be hard pressed to find a place for more than 3 or 4 Aussies and they'd be the bowlers! Jeez, think of Archer, Wood, Cummings, Hazlewood, Zampa...


Intrigued that Zampa would get the nod above Rashid!? I'd be taking Rashid any day of the week.

Also don't buy that Warner is not great anymore, easily one of the best white ball openers out there. Just been through some bad form. I'd also argue that Finch is much more consistent that Roy, if your side is up against it I would back Finch over Roy to pull the team through. He has a much better mentality IMO.
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Stomalomalus
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Re: England v Australia Series

Postby Stomalomalus » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:51 am

WaddyWoody wrote:
Stomalomalus wrote:
liquefry wrote:
I don't like Warner, but he is a class bat. His ODI average is better in England (48), India (56) and the Windies (46) than it is in Australia (45.5). It's not great in Sri Lanka or UAE but you're buying into media BS to call him a flat track bully, the stats just don't back this up. In last year's world cup he averaged 72... I'd suggest he's just having a bad season so far, not that he can't play in England. Finch/Roy/Bairstow are all pretty equivalent IMO. Bairstow is terrible outside England. Outside the world cup, Roy has been meh for his whole career. Like the other two, Finch has been great in patches but is hit and miss. Agree on Stoinis and Marsh though.


Is he class, though, or was he class? It seems to me like on a bowling friendly pitch, he can be got early doors quite easily. If you let him settle, he can score big.

Stoinis is just meh personified.

If you picked a combined team, you'd be hard pressed to find a place for more than 3 or 4 Aussies and they'd be the bowlers! Jeez, think of Archer, Wood, Cummings, Hazlewood, Zampa...


Intrigued that Zampa would get the nod above Rashid!? I'd be taking Rashid any day of the week.

Also don't buy that Warner is not great anymore, easily one of the best white ball openers out there. Just been through some bad form. I'd also argue that Finch is much more consistent that Roy, if your side is up against it I would back Finch over Roy to pull the team through. He has a much better mentality IMO.


I'd also think the same. But Zampa's figures are pretty epic this summer...

On Finch vs Roy: England don't want someone to "pull the team through", they want someone to literally destroy your bowling attack. That's how England are organized: destroy, rebuild, demolish. And they can do that without that middle phase, because Morgan is quite happy to promote and demote players at will. So while Root may be the #3, he sometimes doesn't come in there, or even at all. Because England want to do the demolish phase, with Buttler and Stokes.

Morgan helps. He can do both and do both to a very high standard.
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liquefry
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Re: England v Australia Series

Postby liquefry » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:01 am

I'd take Warner over Roy/Bairstow/Finch any day. Of the other three, probably Bairstow in England and Finch elsewhere.

WaddyWoody
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Re: England v Australia Series

Postby WaddyWoody » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:14 am

liquefry wrote:I'd take Warner over Roy/Bairstow/Finch any day. Of the other three, probably Bairstow in England and Finch elsewhere.


Warner & Bairstow for me. Finch then Roy if we're doing a pecking order out of the four.
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rtj45
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Re: England v Australia Series

Postby rtj45 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:22 am

liquefry wrote:I'd take Warner over Roy/Bairstow/Finch any day. Of the other three, probably Bairstow in England and Finch elsewhere.


The greatness of freedom of speech and preference is that we all have differing views
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liquefry
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Re: England v Australia Series

Postby liquefry » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:22 am

:) Completely impartial and objective of course!


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